Issues with fasting- particularly master cleanse

topic posted Mon, April 24, 2006 - 1:27 PM by  Jenn
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Hey everyone-

I have done the master cleanse once for 8 days, and it was a great experience. I felt light, energetic, lost some weight and decided I definitely want to do it on a regular basis. So that's where I'm coming from for this post.

Then I chatted with my doc about it. She thinks that fasting every so often is a good idea in general, trusts alternative practitioners, and treats me with herbs, diet changes, etc. whenever possible. However, she had the following reservations about the master cleanse:

1- Cayenne pepper can be toxic at certain doses (she did not specify a dose). So be careful about your intake of it, especially if it's one of only 3-5 ingredients you are ingesting. (As she said, parsley can cause cancer in high enough doses. Just because it's "natural" or herbal does not mean it isn't powerful and potentially harmful in the wrong dose).

2- Protein intake is important. Since you are not taking in much if any protein on the master cleanse, your body will pull it from somewhere. That somewhere will be your internal organs and your muscles. She suggested that some sort of fast that incorporates protein shakes or something may be better. I know Burroughs addresses the protein thing, but medically speaking, I suspect he doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't believe he's a doctor. I also know that he wrote the book some time ago, and new nutritional information has since come to light.

I hate it when folks get on tribes just to be nay-sayers. But talking with her made me reconsider doing a straight master cleanse again, so I wanted to share this information with all of you. I think my next fast will be a combo of MC, fruit & veggie juices, and protein shakes. Of course, my doctor suggested I only fast under the care of an alternative practitioner who knows what they're doing.

Anecdotally, some of my friends have verified apparent loss of muscle mass, and have definitely had issues with the intake of so much sugar as the only calorie source. It's just so difficult to identify what is detox and what is a reaction to sugar, pepper, etc. Although it seemed to work well for me, I know the MC isn't for everyone. Now I'm wondering if there may be a better standard fast for most of us.

Be well!
posted by:
Jenn
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  • My favorite way to fast is to do a liquid diet fast for 1-3 days at a time. I don't think more than 3 days at a time without solid food is healthy at all. People will probably disagree with me but the body needs nutrients, if it slows down the cleansing a bit to keep the body and mind healthier then it is a good thing in my book. If one wants to cleanse for longer than 3 days, set up a rotation with a very healthy and easy to assimilate solid food diet and liquid food fast. 1 day fasting, 1 day eating 2 days fasting 1 day eating 3 days fasting then transition back to a normal diet for a few weeks and do the same thing over again. Much healthier in my opinion.

    I use liquid meal replacements while fasting. Not the type you can buy in the store, I mix a high quality whey protein isolate with a spoonfull of cooked oatmeal in a blender 3-5 times a day while fasting. I use green drinks and lemon drinks in between. I use a fiber supplement to keep the GI moving.

    Fasting without a balance of protein and carbs is a good way to severely unbalance your brain chemistry as well as leach nutrients out of other parts of the body.
    • I'm usually aware of my body, and my experience with Master Cleanse was that it was not healthy, at all. I stayed on it for 24 hours, and felt absolutely wracked. Part of the problem was that your calories are coming 98% from sugar. It's a recipe for diabetes. On top of that, all the "colonic cleansers" (the senna teas and the salt water flushes) are really rough on the system.

      I modified it a bit [well, a lot]. I took a cue from Islamic and Orthodox fasts [Muslims and Catholics have been fasting much, much longer than new agers!] - so it's only liquids during the day, a light Mediterranean breakfast, and a light dinner ... no oils, diary, meat, or fish products allowed. Breakfast has been a few olives, some sliced tomato and cucumber, a handful of pomegranate seeds, and sourdough. Dinner has been bread and a simple veggie soup.

      It's still rough, my energy is still lower than normal [no gym!], and I'm still drinking the MC lemonade (I have so damn much of it). I'm not sure that part is healthy, but I'm not up for a full day of no liquids. Yet the benefits, for me at least

      - I'm conscious of food, and of my old eating habits, but not obsessing over food as I was in MC
      - I'm not shitting mucus or dried bile and blood [which MC says is your body eliminating toxins]
      - I'm not frakkin dizzy and light-headed during the day [which MC calls 'having a burst of energy']
      - I feel like I'm closer to the original goals of fasting [learning discipline, moderation, simplicity, and consciousness of your actions] rather than the modern goals [punishing yourself, excessive adherence to rules, suffering, etc.]

      And that's my take!
  • I have not done the master cleanse at all, though I have fasted. One thing to keep in mind, is that to achieve clean intestines, you need matter to pass through, or FIBER. There is zero fiber in the master cleanse.

    However, I know several people that swear by this program. They drop weight, though they gain most of it back by the time they do another cleanse. I personally won't do this program for several reasons, but have fasted for spiritual enlightenment, and the physical bonuses have always been welcome.
  • Unsu...
     
    Hey,

    You have a right to be concerne about master cleanser, I definately do.

    First I really think people need to understand what fasting IS. Ie what it truly is, and what the body is doing when its fasting. If you take supplements, herbs, spices, shakes or juices when you are fasting it is not a fast. A fast is the complete abstainance from all foods and fuel sources. Herbs and spices irritate the system and will not help with detoxification. Natural is a misunderstood concept. Poison Ivy is natural but it does not mean it is natural for humans. generally, if you wouldnt feed it to a human infant, it isnt natural for humans.

    Your muscle loss is because your body is using muscle, instead of fat, as a fuel when you are 'fasting'.

    I have just posted in another discussion about what fasting is so I will just c&p it again, to save time. but its important to know whats going on when fasting. As you will see, if you provide some fuel, but not quite enough, your body never switches into fat conversion. This means that toxins will never be released, since toxins are stored in your fat. This means you are just overworking your system every time you cleanse. Repeated 'cleansing' will result in protein loss as a consequence. I wouldnt really recommend using shakes, since these will still prevent fat conversion, and so will be a waste of time in terms of detoxing. The only benefit you will get, is that you will give your digestive system a little bit more of a break than it might usually get.

    So heres what happens when fasting:

    Fasting is the complete abstainance of food. What I am about to describe ONLY applies to a clean water fast. "Fasting" with herbs, supplements or with juices, will not elicit this response and I would not recommend this.

    Usually your body uses glucose (sugar) as fuel, however after 4-8 hours, your body starts to get a blood sugar dip, and in the ABSOLUTE absense of food (sugar) it will go to the liver for Glycogen, a long with a little protein from muscles. Glycogen is a carbohydrate storage form held in the liver and muscles. The livers stores of glycogen last around 6-12 hours, then the body goes to the muscles. The glycogen in the muscles will last another few hours, and a little protein will be burned here also. When these stores run out, extra protein will be burned for a few hours, however if you continue to deny the body fuel, rather than using up protein, the body will decide to burn fat.

    It converts fat into a sugar-replacement called ketones, though whats called 'gluconeogenesis'. This occurs after about 48 hours of complete abstainance from glucose. Since toxins are stored in fat, as a protective mechanism, as the fat becomes used for fuel, toxins are released. This forces the liver to increase its efficiency to handle these toxins and excrete them. The body will continue to burn fat at a rate of about 1 pound (2.4kg) fat per day, to fuel the body (this amount decreases after a while as the body becomes more efficient). This amount is just to fuel the brain and organs, therefore energy should not be wasted, by muscle movement or by overstimulating the brain. Once all the fat reserves are gone, the body will start using protein for fuel. It will start with the least important proteins first, eg. tumours, then go to muscles. Fasting would usually be stopped before all the fat reserves are gone.

    I wouldnt recommend fasting alone for more than 3 days, as it can get really intense and you might get anxious and panic about whats going on. And more importantly, if you are not supervised when re-feeding you can do alot of damage.

    Last year I went to a retreat and did a 24 day water fast. There was a woman there, interning, who mentioned that she used to do regular fasts every birthday for a week or 10 days sometimes. I say fasts, but they werent true fasts, since she was still exercising/working etc, which must have exhausted her body. But she decided to break her last fast with pancakes and butter. She ended up in hospital and has done permenant damage to her liver and spleen. Infact she almost died. Re-feeding is Just as, if not more important than the fast itself, and if this is done incorrectly, you can do serious damage.

    That said, providing you really look after yourself for 6 months before a fast, so your body is already cleaner, and has good nutrient reserves, it can be a really healthful experience and you can gain alot from it.

    Hope this helps..

    Take Care

    Adam x
    • You should always have a Master Faster to help you on your trip into Gods House. Your fast sould be as easy as the God's, after all your at their party.

      Day 2
      • Aloha

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    • Adam,

      While the biochemical process you describe is true (i.e. switching to fat metabolism), it is incorrect to say "if you provide some fuel your body never switches into fat metabolism". I'm only posting this to correct your information, not any kind of a slam. If you are not consuming "enough" carbohydrates for your daily needs, you will switch to burning some fat. Of course as you point out, a water fast is the most expeditious way to do this. Whether you are doing a Mastercleanse or other type a fasting, there is a very easy way to verify whether you are actually burning fats - just test your urine for ketones! (you can get ketone test strips in the diabetic section of most pharmacies).

      Any (insulin using) diabetic knows about this, because when diabetics are sick you need to to watch for increases of blood sugar and test for ketones. I.e. if a diabetics stops being able to utilize *enough* glucose for their daily needs, their body will swich into some level of fat metabolism and start showing ketones in their urine. Although this process eventually leads to ketoacidosis (coma) in a diabetic - the body can go for weeks or months doing both, i.e. using limited glucose and then burning fat to get the additional energy needs. I can state this absolutely - because it has happened to me, and I have tested my urine and seen the process! I supect this is the type of metabolic process that the Mastercleanse taps into, as a way to make it easier to burn fats more gently over a longer time.

      So if you are a purist, you could say that water fasting is the only true type of "fasting" - yet people do achieve different levels of detoxification and cleansing with "juice fasting" and using limited supplements etc. Some would define fasting as refraining from eating solid food, because just taking a limited amount of juices or lemon water still gives the digestive system a break and triggers some level of metabolic detoxification processes.

      I personally have done both short 2-3 day water fasts, and short 2-3 day Mastercleanses. At this time, I would say I prefer the Mastercleanses. They have been easier on my body, but I still feel like I achieve some level of fat metabolism & detoxification. I drink the minimum # of cups of the lemon water though, and I use half the standard amount of maple syrup (this is recommended for diabetics). My blood sugar does not peak out on the Mastercleanse this way. I also think small amounts of cayene pepper do help. [Note, I only do a little laxative tea and haven't tried the salt water flushes, I agree that both are probably too much.] I also use some milk thistle supplement to assist the liver in detoxification - saves a lot of those nauseus headaches as you get into the second day.

      NOTE! For reference I am a MODY3 diabetic. MODY3 is an unusual subset of TYPE 2 diabetes that is more severe and I take limited insulin when I eat high glycemic index carbohydrates. I have reviewed fasting with my doctors and it is completely safe for me to do short fasts, as I need zero insulin when I am not eating foods (even on the Mastercleanse). My comments about my blood sugar only apply to me and my form of diabetes. Anyone with TYPE 1, or a different form of TYPE 2 needs to carefully review fasting with their doctor.

      That said I completely agree with your points about "re-feeding" are very important, as well "pre-feeding"! i.e. what you eat especially for the week (or months) before you try any fasting regime is also very important. The worst is when you go into a fast with the wrong stuff in your gut, or when you try to eat heavy foods too quickly coming out of it. I think it is important to drink fresh veggie juices soon after coming off a fast - with lots of greens so not too sweet - like half carrot, half celery. This helps replenish any lost nutrients, and it is easy to absorb.

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